Crotch issue converting from V3 to V4 (partial nudity)

[jakiblue]

ah. i don't have poser so i can't recreate what you did.

do you think it's possible something can be done for the next update? i don't know if it can be fixed if poser isn't used, but just wondering?

[PhilC]

The help file includes an on screen video tutorial on how to adjust joint parameters. There is no "one size fits all" set of joint parameters that can be applied to every conceivable item of clothing made for a figure such that they will work perfectly in every instance. Also joint parameters may be used to define exactly how the user wishes the joint to look when the clothing is manipulated. Consider a jacket shoulder. By simple adjustment of the joint parameters this can be set to give either a rounded shoulder or the effect of shoulder pads. If you are using ANY 3D application that does not allow you to adjust these fundamental settings you may want to consider upgrading to one that does.

I have always said that the joint parameters that are applied to the converted clothing are a good optimum set but that small adjustments may be required to suit your particular model and the particular way in which the clothing should bend.

I know its not an easy subject, I did not find it easy at first. However I'm a great believer in the "give a man a fish" vs "teach a man to fish" philosophy, so am always happy to answer questions regarding joint parameters.

Consider a pair of jeans made to fit V41 to which the DEV V41 joints have been applied. When conformed to V41 and the right thigh is bent the result will be as below:-



Clearly this is wrong. Or to be more accurate these set of joint parameters are not quite correct for this particular clothing model. The solution is to make some small changes. The thought process is:-

I know that EVERYTHING within a green cut off plane or sphere moves 100% when the joint moves.
I know that NOTHING within a red cut off plane or sphere moves at all when the joint moves.
I know that the blending occurs between these two zones.
I therefore need to move or increase the size of the green plane or sphere such that it fully encompasses all of the body part that I wish to move.

Again there is not one absolute solution. Generally increasing the scale of the green inner fall off zone will be the first place to try. Generally Y & Z scale for arms. Generally X & Z scale for legs. When the X scale of the green inner fall off zone in increased from 8% to 10% for the pants thigh bend the result will be as below:-



Now lets consider some tighter clothing; panties for V41. When the as supplied joint parameters are applied and the right thigh is bent the result is as below:-



Again some slight adjustment is required. Here we do not need to worry about what happens to any cloth around the knee because there is none. In this instance I have moved the green inner fall off sphere slightly to the figure's right (screen left).



Again it is not the only solution.

Summery.
We identified the problem.
We looked to see which parameters required to be adjusted to affect a solution.
The changes were minor.

Tip
When you have done one side use the Poser menu Figure\Symmetry to copy the joint settings from one side to the other.
Work on one joint at a time.

I will look again at the joint parameters in the V41 donor CR2 file and see if a different optimization will be more suitable.

I appreciate that DAZ studio users can not adjust the joint parameters with in that application. The Wardrobe Wizard web page clearly states that:-

"Whilst Wardrobe Wizard 2.0 is primarily designed to compliment the Poser application our testers have also been able to use the output files in DAZ Studio and Carrara. This is not to say that those two applications are fully supported though they might possibly be in the future. "

We will do what we can to help DAZ Studio users get the most out of Wardrobe Wizard but it must be recognized that DAZ Studio is given away free and is basically just a Poser file viewer with a good render engine. Its functionality is reflected in its price.
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[PhilC]

You are welcome to try these alternative joint parameter settings:-

http://www.philc.net/temp/Alternative_V4_donor_CR2.zip

Place the files into the data folder of the plugin and stand alone Wardrobe Wizard 2 installations. You may want to back up the originals first.

Should it transpire that this set is of more use to more people than the originals then yes we will certainly make that change.
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[jakiblue]

Phil. Mate. Buddy. Pal.

YOU ARE A FREAKIN' LEGEND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It worked!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! *jumping up and down in excitement*

OMG it worked!

I reconverted the codpiece that I was using to show in the image, and holy cow, there is NO 'tearing' (or whatever it's called) I've put V4 in some extreme poses to test it out and OMG it's SO much better. There was a TINY amount right in the underside of the crotch where it has that funny pointed bit, like how you showed in the pics above? But it is so minimal, and is only noticeable if you have the camera shoved right up between her legs - and believe me, I have no plans of doing a render with that view. LOL!

THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!!!

sorry about all the exclamation marks and capitals - but i'm just so excited about this!

[jakiblue]

just as an afterthought - would whatever amazing thing you did there, work with the boot problem we've been having? ('we' as in D|S users)

[PhilC]

Almost certainly. As I say joint parameters are fundamental to animated 3D modeling. Pretty much every application I know that manipulates 3D models has them and has the ability to set and adjust them. Except that is DS Studio.

Also to put it ito perspective, the "amazing" thing that I did was change the value of just one parameter from -0.049 to -0.077
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[Rowlando]

Hi Phil

This could be simple I think, in fact it must be.

Here it I am trying to adjust zones in the joint editor as per you video and this post on some panties for v4 converted from v3.

I can see in this post that the garment name bend is used, now I don't have this name on the panties.

What I get is Center, Abdomen scale Y, right thigh scale Y & left thigh scale Y

I presume I adjust the right and left thigh ?? but when I adjust the green zone nothing happens?

Any advice please

Rowlando
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[PhilC]

Yes I was working with the thigh. You probably have the hip selected.

Make sure that you have the clothing and not the figure selected. It is very easy to have the figure selected and be adjusting that without realizing it.
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[Rowlando]

Yes phil

I made sure it was the right figure, but I can only select the hip area no thigh available.

Rowlando
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[Rowlando]

I found it just tweaking now thanks what a buff head I am
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[jakiblue]

[Rowlando]

Well I have fixed that drag part happening all great.

Now what has happened now is the actual crutch are has bulged out and up creating a mess only in that area.

Phil what areas should I look at to see what I can change?

Rowlando
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[Rowlando]

Hi Phil

I can't seem to fix this using joint editor any suggestions, simply put I have gone over all the joints movements and tried to adjust with only small effect.

The crouch area, becomes a mess when posed, or should I forget it and move on with other stuff.

Thanks Rowlando
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[PhilC]

Can you send me what you have got. Preferable an unedited and edited version?

pcooke@philc.net
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[Juliekitty]

Phil -- Thanks for the explanation on the thigh and upper arm problem. This is what I was looking for, I think. I will see if I can't print that out or something and do these edits.

I agree with you -- it's certainly better to understand WHY something futzes up, so that you can fix it when different problems happen.

Thank you very much!

And I adore WW2.